TRAVELLER Digest 595

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Microjumps by Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
  2) Re: Microjumps by "'Jomama' Charles Pratt" <tminus@u.washington.edu>
  3) Re:TRAVELLER digest 592 by angus.mclellan@almac.co.uk (ANGUS MCLELLAN)
  4) Re: Vargr question by fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
  5) Re: Military tactics: T-plates vs. HEPLAR by Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
  6) Re: USL ships and stuff (as if!) by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
  7) Re: TRAVELLER digest 594 by Julian Love <julian.love@st-johns.oxford.ac.uk>
  8) Real World Pirates by John Muir Macpherson <muirmac@uclink.berkeley.edu>
  9) Re: TRAVELLER digest 594 by anwfh@acad2.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
 10) Re: HePLaR and fleet tactics by "John A. King" <jking@interaccess.com>
 11) Re: Infantry by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
 12) Ancients by fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
 13) Re: more infantry by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
 14) Re: infantry by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
 15) Re: Why use Infantry? by Bri <bri@teleport.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:54:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Microjumps
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960213115056.19210A-100000@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>

There's an article in one of the JTAS's on this isn't there?  (I don't
have my books with me).  I believe the rule was that any jump takes a
minimum of fuel equal to that required for a 1 parsec jump, but that
otherwise there is no limitation on how small a jump can be.  There are
some interesting military implications arising from microjumps...

Charles.

<0>         "The past is as unknowable as the future..."<0>
<0> Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), <0>
<0> Psychology Department, McGill University.  <0>
<0> 1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  <0>



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:23:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "'Jomama' Charles Pratt" <tminus@u.washington.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Microjumps
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91j.960213092044.130769B-100000@homer10.u.washington.
edu>


On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Charles Collin wrote:

> There's an article in one of the JTAS's on this isn't there?  (I don't
> have my books with me).  I believe the rule was that any jump takes a
> minimum of fuel equal to that required for a 1 parsec jump, but that
> otherwise there is no limitation on how small a jump can be.  There are
> some interesting military implications arising from microjumps...

I can see how stationary jumps would have some military value.  It would
be a very simple way to hide a large force in system.

>
> Charles.
>
> <0>         "The past is as unknowable as the future..."<0>
> <0> Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), <0>
> <0> Psychology Department, McGill University.  <0>
> <0> 1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  <0>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 16:39:00 +0100
From: angus.mclellan@almac.co.uk (ANGUS MCLELLAN)
To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re:TRAVELLER digest 592
Message-ID: <8BAB3E7.1400019962.uuout@almac.co.uk>


"'Jomama' Charles Pratt" <tminus@u.washington.edu> writes
Subject: Just how big is the Regency Navy and RQS

>Here's a question, and I don't know if it comes up in any of the New
>Era  sourcebooks---I didn't see it directly states in the Regency
>Sourcebook:  How big is the Regency's standing Naval and Quarantine
>fleets.  Given the  Regency "reserveist" military attitude, I wouldn't
>think that their  standing force would be too large (enough to cover
>all the quarantine  districts--but not huge).

I don't think that there is anything in the RSB which would suggest that
the Regency Navy is any more reliant on reservists than the Imperial
Navy. The old Imperial organisation called for one Reserve Fleet per
subsector made up of <<colonial>> (Reserve in the warm & fuzzy New Era I
think) squadrons based at HiPop EarlyStellar+ worlds. Based on the orbat
in Fifth Frontier War, the fleets in the Spinward Marches only comprised
one or two each of BatRons and CruRons, along with however many light
cruisers, destroyers and escorts. In the higher-threat environment of
the Virus threat, I would imagine that the average strength of fleets
along the frontier would be higher than in the lazy days before the
Fifth Frontier War.

FFW shows some sizes for SDB forces and for Colonial/Reserve units. Data
supplied on request.

>The feeling I get from the Regency Sourcebook  is that these fleets
>patrol for Virus intrusions, pinpoint them, and then  call out the
>heavy hitters to deal with it.  This would explain how the  Virus
>managed to penetrate deep into Regency territory a couple of times,
>but was defeated efficiently (excluding Trin).  The RQS could possibly
>use something like the United States Naval tactics in the Pacific in
>WWII--a relatively small force that appears big by moving around
>quickly  and appearing to be everywhere.

I don't imagine that a defense in depth with mobile reserves, as
suggested here, would meet with much favour. The frontier would be
better being rigidly defended with large numbers of fighters, SDBs and
monitors/battleriders and static defences (deep mounts, mines et al)
deployed in all the systems in and near the frontier. The mobile fleet
units in the RQDs would, as suggested in the RSB, carry out offensive
sweeps into the Wilds looking for trouble. God (or maybe Dave Nilsen)
alone knows what the Swing Fleets and similar deep reserves are for.
Given the inevitable lags in communication, a mobile defense is (as
shown in the case of Trin) no defense at all. <<! No pasaran !>>, <<Ils
ne passeront pas>>, <<Not a Step Back>>, and all that sort of stuff.

>Still, I would find it interesting to  know the exact extent of the
>Naval/RQS forces, and the size of the  reserves held in the Regecy
>NavInacShipFacs.  Anyone have any ideas about  how to extrapolate the
>size from any of the information they have?

There is no particularly good way to estimate the size of the Regency's
naval forces. The suggestion in TCS is that naval forces would be equal
to ten times the annual construction capacity of a world/state (IIRC).
This, if applied to the Regency, would result in billions upon billions
of UCP tonnes of starships. I doubt that sufficient crews could be found
to man them ! Alternatively, one could make assumptions about the amount
of money spent on the Navy and RQS using the rules in Striker, or about
the sophontpower strength of these forces using a WAG. One thing is
certain, if the Regency was short of warships in the 1120s, it's had 75
years to build all the ships that anyone could ever want.


** Ennui Warning **  Tedious UWP analysis follows.
========================================================================
A few key indicators (no doubt not correct in detail) for the 1202
Regency are (see following notes for comments) :-
                Regency Marches Deneb   Trojan  Reft
HiPop Worlds    81      44      25      10      2
Pop (billion)   1482    474     686     257     65
GPP (TCr)       1231    583     414     181     53
TL              D       C       D       D       F
Yard Capacity   472     156     194     90      32
Yard TL         E       E       D       F       E
Notes.
Extent :- this analysis includes ONLY HiPop worlds. The impact of all
other worlds in the Regency is assumed to be minimal.
Population :- this is the exact value of TPPG value * UWP Pop Value. To
account for all rounding errors in the TPPG value, 0.5 could reasonably
be added to the multiplier.
GPP :- in TeraCredits (millions of MegaCredits), adjusted for TechLevel,
trade classifications and starport as in (original) Striker. For TL-G
worlds a value of 1.1 was extrapolated as the exchange rate.
Yard Capacity :- as for Trillion Credit Squadron. The value shown is in
trillions (I think) of UCP tonnes capacity. No adjustment made for
government type and peace/war multipliers shown in TCS due to the
problem of balkanised government codes. The net effects of these
simplifications are probably minimal if you feel the Regency is in a war
situation. If not, reduce this value by 10 to 15 per cent.
TL :- weighted by population. Effectively the average TL of the average
Regency citizen.
Yard TL :- weighted by yard capacity. Effectively the average TL of
ships being built.

While formulae were supplied in the New Era (Path of Tears ?) for
calculating the strength of planetary forces, I feel that these give
absurd results for any <<civilised>> state. I suggest that the use of
those formulae is only reasonable for low technology (PreStellar or
less) worlds in the wilds, so I haven't included the results.
========================================================================
*** Stand Down *** Dull UWP analysis over.

As for the number of ships in reserve - huge. Think of the USN in the
1960s and 1970s with hordes of aging ships left over from the last big
war (or big rearmament push) and imagine the same thing with ship lives
extended and a far bigger navy !
Ships would be stored at the various depots (Macene, Pashus, Depot
Deneb) as well as the the ISFs at Moran, Trin and wherever else. TD7
states that the Dynam Depot ISF in Lishun had about 1000 ships in
reserve, and not just TL14 obsolescent ones. Arrival Vengeance and the
RSB suggest a huge number of ships at Trin (enough that losing a
60kiloton cruiser goes unnoticed). The Nail Mission scenario outline in
MT suggests similarly vast numbers of ships (to me anyway). IIRC there
are descriptions of depots in TD7 as mentioned, MT and the MTJ3 (Depot
Corridor).

Given that starships can and do last centuries when mothballed (cf
Azhanti High Lightning, Darrians), there are likely to be a awful lot of
ships in store throughout the Regency, an awful lot of which are all but
useless. The main problem will be finding trained crews to man them.

One way that big enough reserves of crews could be mustered is by a
system like the Solomani had, of a Home Guard of slightly trained
reservists. For TTNE the Home Guard could be represented by requiring
secondary activities in the 1st and 2nd terms to be used to buy suitable
military skills. That's suitable for the military, not the character of
course. Most Home Guard-type reservists would probably crew deep mounts,
sensor platforms and SDBs or serve in supply, admin or maintenance
units.

Which brings me to a question. Was the draft in CT/MT just a convention
of did the Imperium really conscript people into the Army, Navy and
Marines ?

Angus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:46:52 -0600
From: fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Vargr question
Message-ID: <199602131746.LAA01508@osh1.datasync.com>

Jeff said:

> Not quite, IMO.  More like, "run him as a certain kind of human" -
> the kind of human who is no more or less certain of his
> _capabilities_ than "normal" (for a human), but who has a somewhat
> stronger drive to do things for superiors that will earn their
> approval (_not_ necessarily their respect), and to do things that
> will emphasize his dominance over his subordinates.  Expect him to
> play "political/social dominance" games with his "equals" until it
> is clearly shown just what the relative Charisma between them is.

This is something of what I had in mind.  Especially the

> who has a somewhat
> stronger drive to do things for superiors that will earn their
> approval (_not_ necessarily their respect)

part.  I thought the idea would be that Vargr from Vargr societies behave
like wolves in wolf packs, that is CHR dominated and some infighting between
close CHR's, and that Vargr from Human societies behave like domesticated
canines, that is devotion to leaders "owner" and somewhat of a protective
guardian.

With this in mind, I wrote a profile (as in Personalities of the RC) on the
particular Vargr in question.  While most of it is very rough, this is what
I wrote about the Vargr and his relationship to the PC leader.  The Vargr's
name is Grrath(open to suggestions) and the PC leader is Jason.  (Grrath is
about 12 years older than Jason)

        Personality:  Grrath is rarely seen apart from the Jason.  His feelings
        toward the Human are mixed.  He feels that He is indebted to
        Jason because Jason helped him find his parents murderers, and at the
        same time he feels responsible for Jason's wellbeing as he had been for
        so long when the two were children playing together.  These two forces
        combine to create an impressive tie of loyalty to the Jason.  Even
        through the bonds of loyalty, Grrath has a strong desire to be reunited
        with his race.  He often dreams that one day he might have the
ability to
        meet others of his own kind and learn more about what his people are
        like.

I appreciate everyone's comments so far and I have learned more about Vargr.
I would like to get my hands on some of the published materials available on
Vargr.  If anyone knows where I might get a copy cheaply, please let me know.

Thanks for your help everyone.

Paul {tiger}

"54-40 or fight!" - TBWSK

** PS - if anyone knows of a group playing in South Mississippi, please let
me know.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:26:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Military tactics: T-plates vs. HEPLAR
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960213131320.20224C-100000@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>

A couple of points about this debate:

1) It's true that the gas giant will be defended, but will it be defended
as heavily as the main world?  It would be difficult to do this,
especially if there are more than a couple of gas giants.  In the Sol
system, you'd be spreading yourself thin to cover Earth and 4 GGs (not to
mention colonies).  In other systems, you'd also have to cover any planets
or moons with appreciable water coverage.  Also, couldn't a large fleet
jump into the asteroid belt or Oort cloud, melt an ice-asteroid and dip
from it (just a thought, this may be full of holes)?  Basically, I
think covering all sources of fuel with effective numbers would be
difficult.

2) Refueling at the GG then jumping in system would require 1 whole
parsec's worth of fuel according to what I've read.  I'm not sure, but I
think Merrick was implying that a short jump in system would require only
a fraction of this.  Sorry if I misinterpreted.

Charles.

<0>         "The past is as unknowable as the future..."<0>
<0> Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), <0>
<0> Psychology Department, McGill University.  <0>
<0> 1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  <0>




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:28:03 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: USL ships and stuff (as if!)
Message-ID: <s12091bf.094@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>

Phillip McGregor wrote:

>Well, no, I don't think that the only worthwhile campaigns are run by me.
>However, and lets not get into a flame war over this again, TNE was so
>wonderful that GDW is still in existence, not!

   Once again Phil, you prove how wonderfully intelligent and articulate
you are by responding to an attack by ranting.

   Everyone is *really* tired of the whole pile of BS, and in particular the
jig you keep dancing on GDW's grave.

   As for the particulars of your comments:

>Traveller 2300/2300 AD sank (all you could really do was *boring*
>exploration a la the infamous "Energy Curve" or kill Kafers)

   Perhaps, except for the fact that 2300AD wasn't exclusively
Frank's--Marc Miller had a major role in this project as well.

   As for the other products you mention, Frank had varying degrees of
involvement in all of them, but wasn't necessarily the primary author.

>OK, gearheads like you liked it ... but it wasn't enough to save the
>company, after all, was it?

   No one supplement or publication will keep a game company in
business, otherwise GDW will still be living off the glory of their
Operation Desert Storm Factbook which made the New York Times Best
Seller List.  The fact that one particular supplement can't save a company
doesn't make it any less valuable to any one fan of the game.  Atlas of
the Imperium never sold particularly well, but if you want a head start
on creating sector stats, there is no substitute.

>And the Trading Card caused slump in the RPG industry isn't valid, as all
>the other dogs died pre-TC games.

   No two gaming industry experts agree on the exact impact of the
growth of the collectable card industry, but most agree that it did cause
many hobby stores to decrease the amount of other materials they
carried so that they could make room for more collectable card games.
Without question at least some money that consumers would have
spent on other things (like RPG supplements) went instead to buying
additional ``booster`` packets for CCGs.  Pinning down exact dollar
figures is tricky at best, but there was at least some impact.

>Sure, if they don't go into superdetail, they'll lose you. But you weren't
>enough to save TNE and GDW anyway -- the loss of confirmed
>roleplayers was what put the final nail in its coffin.

   No one person will save any game, nor will any one special interest
group.  A RPG has to appeal to many different types of people to be
successful--yes, including the people who like to tinker.  The Chadwick/
Nilsen regime took a creative gamble in coming up with the TNE storyline.
That in no way invalidates the mechanics behind it.

>*Blunt Hairpins* and *CattleCarriers* (the boardgames) I regard as
>entirely non-canon as they have HePlaR. Fine. *You* like it. Wonderful.

   As did a *lot* of other people.  As for HePlaR, I liked the fact that it was
more realistic, but always felt uncomfortable with the ``gas mileage`` it
got.  I'm sorry they cause you so much personal heartbreak.

>But TNE was a joke

   Maybe to people who concluded that Traveller died about 1987.  Which
makes me wonder why you even picked up TNE--habit perhaps?  There
had to be something about it other than the Traveller logo that made you
want to buy anything more than just the basic sourcebook, which
apparently you did.

>In any case, it sounds as if MM is going back to CTrav/MTrav for the
>"new" traveller ... or so the material on the list seems to indicate ... so
>he may well not agree with you either.

   Or you, Phil.  It is quite likely the new Traveller will not be exactly what
anybody wants.  It is entirely possible that design sequences similar to
those in TNE will be included--probably not in the basic book, but later on.
After all, somebody at GDW felt it necessary to come out with Striker,
Mercenary, High Guard, Merchant Prince, etc. at some point.

>What it boils down to, I suppose, is that we'll have to agree to
>disagree?!

   Roger that.  Honestly I don't know how you can expect to launch
missiles against TNE on this mailing list and not expect to get some
serious return fire.

   If you find any further personal offense in the comments I've made
above, then e-mail direct to hdhale@tasc.com  , don't bother people
around here.  If you have something to say that everyone would like to
hear, then please post it here.

Regards,

Harold







------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:50:39 +0000 (GMT)
From: Julian Love <julian.love@st-johns.oxford.ac.uk>
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 594
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960213183604.840A-100000@sable.ox.ac.uk>

> From: Craig Berry <cberry@hollywood.cinenet.net>
> Subject: HePLaR and fleet tactics

<snip>

> Alas, it all starts to fall apart under HePLaR.  In the Good Old Days of
> thruster plates, you could refuel at the GG, then burn in-system at max
> gee, flip over at midpoint, then decelerate at max gee the rest of the
> way, arriving with tanks still full at the mainworld a couple of days
> later.  Try that in a HePLaR ship and your fuel gauge will be on E before
> you've cleared the GG's outer moons (okay, I'm exaggerating -- but you
> see my point).  Instead, you have to boost a bit, coast a *long* time,
> then reverse thrust a bit, arriving at the MW with slightly low tanks,
> but (hopefully) still enough to maneuver and jump.
>
> Now, for a good healthy GG/MW separation, and using a typical ship, while
> maintaining adequate fuel reserves to fight and leave, we're talking
> *weeks* of travel to get to the MW!  Now huge amounts of canon --
> including the game Fifth Frontier War, along with lots of other background
> material -- are based on the military rhythm of one week jumping, one week
> playing around in-system.  The whole pace of strategic action falls apart
> if you spend a week tavelling between the stars, then most of the rest of
> a month plodding around in your target system.

<the rest snipped>

For a J3 or J4 starship, what is the fuel cost of an in-system jump from
the GG to MW? I would guess it is only as much as an old CT/MT ship used
in buring its thrusters for a week when PP fuel was a major consideration.

Also, how often is refuelling at the GG and then travelling to the MW the
actual scenario? I don't know, but I would guess that the number of
systems without a GG combined with the number where the MW orbits the GG
is quite large. In both these cases, there is no change to cannon.

So as for a lack of GG refueling with HEPlaR, and the speed of advance
slowing down:

1) use a micro-jump to get to the MW. It takes about the same amount of
time to get there as in CT/MT, and still leaves you with enough fuel to
jump out again.

2) refuelling at the GG is even more vital, so it is hardly going to
disappear. Anyway, in CT/MT weren't the GGs themselves the object of many
battles. As they are so vital to an attacking fleet, they are as heavily
defended as the mainworld itself.

I think that HEPlaR adds significantly to the realism of space combat in
TNE, and it doesn't call for any particular differences in starship
operation. The routine for the attcking fleet is the same as it always
has been:

1) you jump in
2) you fight to refuel at the GG
3) you travel to the MW with enough fuel to jump out if required (just
   uses a micro-jump instead of M-drives)
4) you fight for the MW
5) if you lose you jumpo out, if you win you wait for reinforcements etc.

Any other thoughts?

Jules
julian.love@sjc.ox.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:03:24 -0800 (PST)
From: John Muir Macpherson <muirmac@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Real World Pirates
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9602131008.B15886-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>

I saw this brief in Monday's Finnacial Times and thought it was
very Travish.  In the spirit of returning the list to an rpg resource
rather than a spitting match, I thought maybe someone could convert this
to a TNS bulletin for their campaign.

CHINA 'PIRATE' SHIP HELD

The philippine Navy seized a suspected Chinese pirate ship and
its 20 crewmen over the weekend after they tried to ram a navy boat in a
gun battle north-west of Manila, Reuter reports from Manila.  There were
no casualties in the second sea clash in three weeks between the
Philippine Navy and suspected Chinese vessels off the Subic Bay free
port, an area notorious for pirates.
Two navy patrol ships and a gunboat engaged the vessel, driving
it back to land with heavy gunfire.  Capt Ernesto de Leon, who commanded
the navy force, personally briefed Presdient Fidel Ramos on the incident.


Respectfully,

Muir

P.S. Everyone should just think happy thoughts.  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:31:52 -0900
From: anwfh@acad2.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 594
Message-ID: <v01530500ad46968c0b97@[137.229.100.86]>

>>What it comes down to is: a rules set without a background is just a
>>wargame.
>
>I wouldn't subscribe to this. Is GURPS a wargame? Don't confuse the rule
>system with only combat rules. They aren't that important. A game (or
>gamers) without imagination become a wargame!

That is how ity was first released: as Man To Man, a cpmbat wargame with
roleplaying type CGen.

As for the Epress wave, it definitely violates the "Traveller history must
make sense" axiom that DGP and MM seem to have held. But then, so does
virus. If the EW is is cannon, then RSB must not be, as it must be moving
at 5-6x light speed, whilst having an effect upon individuals who aren't.
Maybe it's a virus?



-Wil

William F. Hostman

EMail:          ANWFH@Orion.Alaska.EDU
HomePage:       http://orion.alaska.edu/~aswfh/index.html



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:35:29 -0600
From: "John A. King" <jking@interaccess.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: HePLaR and fleet tactics
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960213203529.006778f4@pop.interaccess.com>

This may be overly simplistic, but here goes.

[background on GG vs. MW attacks/refueling deleted]

>Now, you're right, the jump, refuel, drive on in is trashed.  But when
>HEPlaR I-fleets jump in they really need to refuel.  Badly.  They are
>forced to fight if the fuel is defended, and they are forced to right
>away since time is on the defender's side.

This seems to be the I-fleet's most vulnerable point. The only options for
the I-fleet are win or die. If I was an Admiral, I would do whatever it took
to give myself some more options at this point.

However, the only immediately obvious solution is to have my ships built
with large enough fuel tanks to make the initial jump and also to jump back
in case a bug out is necessary. Assuming the I-fleet and N-fleet have
similar tech levels and similar Rated ships, I will get wasted since my
N-fleet counterpart can load up his ships with weapons, while I have to load
mine up with fuel. What you get is a "WWI" or "U.S. Civil War" situation
regarding tactics and strategy; it is almost impossible for a frontal attack
to succeed unless it has overwhelming numerical superiority (and even then,
the attackers' losses will far outnumber the defenders'). The attacker must
probe for weaknesses in the defense along a multi-system front, until
(hopefully) he finds a weakly-defended GG, and which point he hits it with
everything he has.

Possible solutions for this problem(?):
1. The "Drop Tank" option - Construct my ships with "drop tanks" that add
fuel without taking up space in the ship proper. This amounts to making
bigger (and more expensive) ships than my counterpart.
2. The "Battle Rider" option - Using the "Battle Rider" paradigm, and give
the tender the extra fuel, but not the carried ships. Your tenders will jump
in and can jump out, but can only bug out with the ships they can collect
before leaving. Sort of like carrier warfare in WW2.
3. The "Kamikaze" option - The first wave of ships aren't mean't to return.
They are suicide jockeys whose job is to take out the GG's defenses at any
cost. The main force will follow up the first wave at some later time,
assuming they win. As far as how I find out if they win or not, I'm not
sure. Also, this suggestion is not entirely serious ;).

Well, this is my 2Cr. A very interesting topic, though, IMHO.

Regarding my previous "Butlerian Jyhad" post, I think that Mr. McLellean
mistook my post. When I said:

>In fact, a movement will arise whose goal is the eradication of all
>comuters (cf. the "Butlerian Jyhad" in Herbert's Dune series).

What I meant was that a movement would arise that insisted that all people's
homes be within walking distance of their place of work. This is also known
as the "Pedestrian Jyhad" :).

I, also, would be interested to see micro-jump ideas. Some of the tactics
posts have depended upon micro-jumps working.

Thanks,


John A. King
jking @interaccess.com

"Scientists are Peeping Toms at the keyhole of eternity."
- Arthur Koestler


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:29:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Infantry
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960213152814.21611A-100000@julie.teleport.com>

-- David Golden wrote...
        I think the whole point about what to do in a more _complex_
environment is what to do with _people_ ... are you going to put an IFF
device on every single human in a city you're conquering? How do you make
sure none of the resistance gets one? How are you going to hold and control
a city without infantry? Sure, you can nuke it if you don't want to keep it.
But you have to have folks on the ground.
--
 PEOPLE!!! It's made out of POEPLE!!!!!!

sorry ;)
 That's why I installed the 300km meson commo on them, so they can
communicatie with a 'platoon commander' in those grey areas.

bri <bri@teleport.com>
Whenever I hear the sparrow chirping, watch the woodpecker chirp,
catch a chirping trout, or listen to the sad howl of the chirp
rat, I think: Oh boy! I'm going insane again. -Jack Handy


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:37:55 -0600
From: fredm@datasync.com (Paul Walker)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Ancients
Message-ID: <199602132337.RAA03777@osh1.datasync.com>

This question is bound to stir up some controversy.  But I must ask it!

I am designing an Ancient's starship.  This vessel is primarily used for
cargo transportation.  I have two main problems:

        1.  The Ancients used Jump Drives.  How advanced were they, and How
were
        they made.  I have two thoughts on this.  First, at TL-20, I don't think
        they would use a liquid hydrogen fuel for the drive, my guess is
that it
        would be run on antimatter, however; second, there is a good
arguement to
        be made that J-drives require the properties of the chemical
hydrogen to
        run.  In the first case, what is the size of the drive, and what is the
        amount of fuel required.  In the second case, How much hydrogen is
        necessary.  Some of the hydrogen is used to produce energy, this
could be
        replaced by antimatter.

        2.  The Ancients surely didn't use HePlaR.  I believe that they used
        thruster plates, but since thruster plates are no longer available
in the
        Traveller universe, what should this Ancient ship use for maneuver.  (I
        know there are strong feelings about this change in the universal
        absolutes, so to avoid arguementations, lets just say I don't want to
        violate the current (TNE) universal absolutes.) :)

I would appreciate some logical well thought out answers to these questions.
I'm designing such a ship for an adventure, and any polite thoughts would
help.  Please direct all flames to mean2me@how.com?   :*)


Paul {tiger}

"54-40 or Fight!" - TBWSK


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:32:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: more infantry
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960213153029.21611B-100000@julie.teleport.com>

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) commented on how it's a case
of who shoots first when it comes to drones -vs- tanks, this is true. You
are forgetting one thing, tho.
 The Norris grav-tank costs MCr18.5, the Sprite combat drone costs MCr5.
The Norris grav-tank is 10dtonnes, the Sprite is .99(yea, for the bonus).
 So, for the cost of *one* Norris, you can have *4* Sprite's, and for the
storage space of *one* Norris(even more important in combat landings) you
can have *ten* Sprite's.

 Not much of a comparison if you ask me. The Norris is utterly and
totalley outclassed.
 Keep in mind also, the Sprite is small enoufgh for house-to-house fighting.

bri <bri@teleport.com>
Whenever I hear the sparrow chirping, watch the woodpecker chirp,
catch a chirping trout, or listen to the sad howl of the chirp
rat, I think: Oh boy! I'm going insane again. -Jack Handy


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:37:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: infantry
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960213153641.21611C-100000@julie.teleport.com>

--
You might ask the same question today.  The job of the infantry isn't to win
battles, it is to hold ground.  It is a tremendous waste of resources to
attack infantry with a tank, especially when that infantry have ATGMs,
artillery and air support on call, and are in prepared positions.
--
 That's just the problem, in Traveller, armour has gone up
tremendousley(a factor of 5 at least) while missile damages have only
gone up by a factor of 2 at most.
 With the exception of tac nukes,(as I mentioned before) infantry
*can not* hurt properly armoured TL-15/16 vehicles.

bri <bri@teleport.com>
Whenever I hear the sparrow chirping, watch the woodpecker chirp,
catch a chirping trout, or listen to the sad howl of the chirp
rat, I think: Oh boy! I'm going insane again. -Jack Handy


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:48:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Why use Infantry?
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960213154554.21611D-100000@julie.teleport.com>

--(Andy Lilly)
Drones of the size and intelligence given in previous e-mails would not be
as suitable as normal troops for taking positions which you do not want to
devastate. When talking about combat in 'civilian' areas, the massed
firepower of heavy fusion tanks (or robots) is useless if you are trying to
pick off small enemy units without destroying the entire
city/base/starport/whatever. Also, close-in combat within built-up areas
allows the enemy to get their (perhaps weaker) anti-tank (or anti-robot?)
weaponry so close to your tanks/robots that their armour suddenly doesn't
give them such a great advantage.
--
 That's just the thing, if you'll look at the drone I posted that started
this whole thing, it *dosen't* use fusion/plasma weaponry. It uses
mass-drivers, only slightley less precise then lasers(cept these won't
start fires in buildings).
 And if you show me man-portable, non tac-nuke weaponry that can take
this sucker, I'll be happy to aggree about urban combat.
 Even if you do, in a typicial fighter-like grav engagement, these drones
rule over previousley designed vehicles and tanks.
 As for Imperium laws about robots, you may be very well right. I never
said that these were full AIs, tho.

bri <bri@teleport.com>
Whenever I hear the sparrow chirping, watch the woodpecker chirp,
catch a chirping trout, or listen to the sad howl of the chirp
rat, I think: Oh boy! I'm going insane again. -Jack Handy


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 595
***************************
